Some Feedback. And stuff. (Version 3.13)

[Kirroha]

Okay, I'll try keeping this as... serious as I can. Although I'm pretty sure I can't.

Everlong's definitely one of my favourite cliche (there's nothing that wrong about cliches, honestly. XD) RPG games I see here, and though it's pretty linear, I actually like plot-based linear RPGs.

Okay... I'll say some stuff about it now.

1) The battles. Although I managed to pull through them, they really freaked me out everytime I meet a random encounter - it just seems to me, another chance to die. They allow for little or no margin for error, and I died many times. Maybe I'm just bad at this kind of things... Also, real-time turn-based is not really my type, since I can't take my own sweet time to choose my options - I have to act quick before they hit me. And the strategies aren't that easy to figure out.

2) Story Mode. Actually, I played Everlong a long time ago, back in around 2007(?) where it was still in rm2k, so there was no Story Mode. I played until the "weird firey place", then I stopped. So now I see it again, so I decided to play it. Story Mode seems like a good option, so being the coward I am I chose it first. But in the middle, you sort of lose the ability to skip battles altogether. Not just that, even though they scale the levels for you - you cannot access the skill shard system before battles, and thus miss out a lot of new spells and get a bad disadvantage.

3) The Plot. Granted, I kinda like it. Sometimes the scenes were very suspenseful, and I like that as well, as well as the fact that only until the middle is the true enemy revealed. Still, the revelations are very long and quite boring explanations (but then again, almost every RPG game does that, so I guess it doesn't matter. Still, it doesn't hurt to stand out from the norm).

4) Some stuff I find lulzworthy. After Brad is revealed to be a Fake Protagonist and vanishes off the face of the Earth (or just your party), this kind of dialogue (not exactly literally, but enough to prove my point) happens almost every time your party meets him again:

Glen: Okay, what should we do about Altair? He's too stron-
*Brad appears*
Glen: Hey, what happened to yo-
*Brad disappears*
Glen: ... Okay, so what should we do about Altair?

... Yup, they don't exactly mention him at all unless they see him.

Also, I'm very, very, and I do mean very amused that Altair's sense of "entertainment to his guests" is always a guy flashing (in ways more than one... okok) and attacking you immediately after..

Brad's Death.

*Brad dies*
Party: Nooo! We shall avenge him!
*battle Marowit*
Party: Yay, we won! Now let's go home~!
*And he was never ever mentioned again...* XD

Introduction.
(This shouldn't really be counted in the list, since he didn't really mean to kill him in the end, but when I first watched it I was amused.)

Altair: Don't worry, I'm not here to end your life.
ZOMGBANGBANGSUPAHANIMATIONZOOOOOOMBOOOOOOM

(Methought: Totally wasn't there to end his life...)

Oh, the skull, the skull! I love that skull! ;D

... Ok, I'm not sure if I missed anything, but that should be the stuff I found funny. Hopefully it was all of them.

... Oh yeah, I found wobbly Expirius (Teh wobble dance!) and Expirius spinning and being sucked into the rift very funny. Looked hilarious. XD

[DJC]

Thanks for the feedback, let me give responses to some of your points and observations.

Aug 30, 2009 8:02:14 GMT -5 Kirroha said:

Okay, I'll try keeping this as... serious as I can. Although I'm pretty sure I can't.

Everlong's definitely one of my favourite cliche (there's nothing that wrong about cliches, honestly. XD) RPG games I see here, and though it's pretty linear, I actually like plot-based linear RPGs. *cough*Quintessence-The Blighted Venom*cough*

There's pro and cons to both linear and non-linear rpg styles. Everlong is done more in the j-rpg traditional style, with emphasis on the plot, not an immersive and open world for the player to explore and quest around at their whim. This makes some things easier to design and gives the story and character development a chance to take the spotlight, I just never really intended to focus on those things initially. That's why the plot and dialog is cliched, often predictable, and full of long explanations. Ever since the first release I've been gradually stringing the plot tighter together to make it more coherent and original. If you think it's bad now, don't dare play the really old versions.

In my current revision work I've done a HUGE amount of rewriting for the main plot, especially in the first half of the game, but the two crystal mission sequences are also being replaced. There will be fewer cliches, more scenes for character development, and less horrid writing, though I can't possibly rewrite it all.

1) The battles. Although I managed to pull through them, they really freaked me out everytime I meet a random encounter - it just seems to me, another chance to die. They allow for little or no margin for error, and I died many times. Maybe I'm just bad at this kind of things... Also, real-time turn-based is not really my type, since I can't take my own sweet time to choose my options - I have to act quick before they hit me. And the strategies aren't that easy to figure out.

Battle difficulty definitely varies by player, but it sounds like much of your trouble might have been not knowing about the option in the main menu to change the active battles to wait for you while choosing commands. I'll need to make a big pop-up message about this in-game it seems, since many people miss it and it really makes a difference. If I could I'd have it on wait by default or a toggle in the custom menu, but that's not possible with the engine.

The upcoming revision changes for battles focus on lowering enemy HP significantly to make battles shorter and somewhat easier. I haven't done my play-through yet, so I don't know the final result and what tweaks I might make, but the hope is battles will be easier and more fun since they don't last so long.

2) Story Mode. Actually, I played Everlong a long time ago, back in around 2007(?) where it was still in rm2k, so there was no Story Mode. I played until the "weird firey place", then I stopped. So now I see it again, so I decided to play it. Story Mode seems like a good option, so being the coward I am I chose it first. But in the middle, you sort of lose the ability to skip battles altogether. Not just that, even though they scale the levels for you - you cannot access the skill shard system before battles, and thus miss out a lot of new spells and get a bad disadvantage.

I threw Story Mode together very quickly upon suggestion by a player. I didn't think through some of the consequences, or didn't find it worth my time to address them at first. But it seems many people like to use it, and also switch back to normal mode while in the middle of the game.

My current revision work will allow the player to choose to update their levels before a boss fight so they can adjust their skills shards prior and actually have a chance in the fight. In addition, I'm trying to make it possible to skip all plot-based battles, not just boss battles. And then there's the boss battles such as the ones against Dynamo that you can't skip in the current version, but will be able to in the new one I'm working on.

3) The Plot. Granted, I kinda like it. Sometimes the scenes were very suspenseful, and I like that as well, as well as the fact that only until the middle is the true enemy revealed. Still, the revelations are very long and quite boring explanations (but then again, almost every RPG game does that, so I guess it doesn't matter. Still, it doesn't hurt to stand out from the norm).

As I writer I really need to learn how to say things in less words, while still getting the major plot points and character motivations across. It's not an easy thing to do, but I agree I mostly failed in Everlong, especially with the scenes where the Valiantide are giving mission briefings. I tried to give the player some insight into the politics, economics, and history of the world but it just comes out as too much. Letting the player get bored by dialog isn't acceptable, even if commercial games are guilty of it too. You want the reader hanging on every word of the character, not waiting for them to shut up. That means either the dialog is bad, or the character development wasn't good enough to make players interested in what they have to say. As I said earlier, I've done some work to address this in the revision, but it's more a band-aid than a solution despite the volume of dialog I rewrote.

4) Some stuff I find lulzworthy. After Brad is revealed to be a Fake Protagonist and vanishes off the face of the Earth (or just your party), this kind of dialogue (not exactly literally, but enough to prove my point) happens almost every time your party meets him again:

This is the kind of stuff I'm trying to remove with the script rewrite. The plot of Expirius and Brad's part in it will be changed somewhat, and he won't put in so many meaningless appearances. Yet when it's time for a boss fight, Altair still needs somebody to show up. That's the kind of stuff I can't really change without too much work. Instead what I am doing is injecting a flimsy plot device on why Brad keeps returning and changing into a demon to attack you. He does get rather forgotten after he's gone for the final time, and it's the same with Cirus. See, once you're dead, everyone really does just forget about you.

Also, I'm very, very, and I do mean very amused that Altair's sense of "entertainment to his guests" is always a guy flashing (in ways more than one... okok) and attacking you immediately after..

Altair is your rather typical cliche villain who tries not to take the heroes too seriously. I can't really do much to change him, since his character motivation is extremely simplistic and set in stone. This is what happens when don't do any planning, yet somehow reach the end, then look back on your work and realize what you actually did.

... Oh yeah, I found wobbly Expirius (Teh wobble dance!) and Expirius spinning and being sucked into the rift very funny. Looked hilarious. XD

Technical effects are somewhat lacking while using 256 colors, no alpha layers for true transparency effects, and 2-d sprites. I used the stock picture ripple and twirl functions to make Expirius not just sit there like a painted brick while a scene is fading out or he's being sucked into the vortex. Comical isn't always bad, though.

Thanks again for the comments, they're always appreciated. And because of them you've convinced me to make at least one change (the battle active/wait option message pop-up).

[Kirroha]

Hmm, why was Brad chosen to have all that crap dumped into him anyway? What's so special about him that we don't know?

EDIT: Hmm, if you decide to make this game more plot-based, flashbacks should be what it needs. It lowers the amount of explanations by showing and not tellling, and also creates more "emotional" scenes for the player to enjoy.

[DJC]

Aug 31, 2009 5:52:26 GMT -5 Kirroha said:

Hmm, why was Brad chosen to have all that crap dumped into him anyway? What's so special about him that we don't know?

EDIT: Hmm, if you decide to make this game more plot-based, flashbacks should be what it needs. It lowers the amount of explanations by showing and not tellling, and also creates more "emotional" scenes for the player to enjoy.

The problem is that requires new characters and areas in many cases, and when I add stuff I pretty try to do it so I can just reuse resources that are already there. It takes too much time otherwise, especially considering the volume of changes. A few flashbacks would be a good idea, but I'm already worn out by what I've been doing the last several months. I know many players are interested in back story which would fit nicely in flashbacks, I just don't have the time to design them.

You'll have to play the revision to understand why Brad was chosen for his role in the plot of Expirius. It's not a particularly awesome story change, but it's there among others.

[Kirroha]

Well, I really liked the new introduction as compared to the old one. The old one was full of narration that can easily bore the player, but the new one explains lots of things subtly and in an interesting way.

[Kirroha]

snip

[Kirroha]

Erm.... why is it moved? It's a feedback topic for the 3.13 version, not 3.20.

[DJC]

My mistake, I thought it was for the new version, I'll move it back.

[Kirroha]

Thanks. I'll feedback on the new version as well once I finish playing it.

[rbubbaray]

I am still new at the game only on about chapter 18 , {just went thru the main crigoth base }from playing over hundreds of rpg turned base games which is my fav , they do take on a lineur path till later when you get a airship or something and you can go back and play somewhat out of the storyline work on things you missed and professions etc and pretty much be in god mode in earlier sections again .lol before taking on the big boys at the end. what i do find in this game is really challenging the fights you tend to have to use your best skills most the time on reg trash mobs , or you will get hit alot and the fight would take a long time if you didnt , and the items you need to keep going like ethers are expensive and the inns are also depending how low ur HP and MP is so ill skill heal them all first then just rest and pay for my mana regain at inns seems to lessen the payment alot , this is a first that i ever seen in any rpg game for inns usualy there same price no matter what and cheap like 100 gold or something , but item wise it is hard to stock up cause the lack of gold sometimes overall it is very unquie and intresting

[DJC]

Oct 14, 2009 15:02:05 GMT -5 rbubbaray said:

I am still new at the game only on about chapter 18 , {just went thru the main crigoth base }from playing over hundreds of rpg turned base games which is my fav , they do take on a lineur path till later when you get a airship or something and you can go back and play somewhat out of the storyline work on things you missed and professions etc and pretty much be in god mode in earlier sections again .lol before taking on the big boys at the end. what i do find in this game is really challenging the fights you tend to have to use your best skills most the time on reg trash mobs , or you will get hit alot and the fight would take a long time if you didnt , and the items you need to keep going like ethers are expensive and the inns are also depending how low ur HP and MP is so ill skill heal them all first then just rest and pay for my mana regain at inns seems to lessen the payment alot , this is a first that i ever seen in any rpg game for inns usualy there same price no matter what and cheap like 100 gold or something , but item wise it is hard to stock up cause the lack of gold sometimes overall it is very unquie and intresting

Fights have been shortened and made easier in the new version 3.20 and skills have been completely redone in both damage and cost to try and balance them with physical attacking better. The cost of items has also been changed to reflect the power of skills, constricting the player's ability to recover MP easily and abusing skills in battle.

Use skills that inflict Armor Break to make your physical attacks more effective so you don't have to rely on skills so much. You can also inflict conditions like Berserk or Confuse with magic spells which halve the target's defense if successfully inflicted, making physical attacks more effective as well. Also you can use Power Break or Mind Break to lower the damage enemy's deal, and Speed Break to slow them down significantly, lowering their damage output as well. It's important to not just skills for dealing damage but for increasing damage dealt and decreasing damage taken.

The Inns are designed after Final Fantasy Legend II on the original gameboy, though the algorithm isn't an exact copy. The mathematics could have used some more work but I don't have time to improve the cost formula. It serves it's purpose right now as preventing easy MP restoration so the player cannot abuse skills. The cost really get out of hand later in the game as you gain more MP, but by then you have alternative means to restore MP.

To stock up on items don't just use gold. Trade in the monster drops you earn from battles at collector merchants in towns and castles for items. Between treasure chests and collector merchants you should never run out of healing potions. Also in the new version, gold rewards have been significantly increased to deal with higher equipment and item prices.

[rbubbaray]

yea last night I found myself making good gold now , what ill do in most games is take a few hours to grind a area before moving on thats near a inn , and the levels climb fast then go to the skill menu and learn some new spells is sweet
this way you can grind and use all ur best skills to really get them down fast make 4-5 lvls some gold rest at inn and move on im lvl 42 at about chap 19 i believe {after getting off the train }and not to mention im now full on ethers

[rbubbaray]

yea good point about the incaps etc , thats a must in most mmo games like wow , stunning , fears , and armor pent is the way to master your fighting skills w/o the need to rely always on skills, im just a wicked mana and aoe player .lol the visuals are cool to but incaps on ur enemy does lessen the items needed , just at lower lvls they dont seem to work much , later im sure they do , thanks again

[idea]

It would be better if Brad would join the party (by somehow the party get the evil spirit out of him and Expirius have another plan in case of this happen). I would love to see him with the party rather than have to kill him again in another game

[DJC]

Nov 21, 2010 23:04:29 GMT -5 idea said:

It would be better if Brad would join the party (by somehow the party get the evil spirit out of him and Expirius have another plan in case of this happen). I would love to see him with the party rather than have to kill him again in another game

Unfortunately that would make 11 characters and complicate many of the game's systems. Some special monster attacks also don't have cases coded for Brad or Cirus. As painful as it is to have done all that work on animations for them, and Brad's Skill Shards, I don't really want to compromise the story either.